Never Go to War with Your Body: Summer Bodies & Women’s Surfing Body Image with Danyelle Carpenter

Laura Day
May 12
45 min read

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Danyelle Carpenter challenges beauty standards in surf culture: “How you look shouldn’t be the most interesting thing.”

📝 Episode Summary

Laura reconnects with three-time guest and close friend Danyelle Carpenter for a vulnerable, honest, and often hilarious conversation about the pressures women face as summer approaches. From family comments to surfwear marketing, they explore how cultural expectations around bodies impact self-worth—especially in surf culture. Their motto? Never go to war with your body. This episode is for every woman who’s tired of trying to earn their place in the lineup by changing their appearance.

🔥 Standout Quotes about Women's Surfing Body Image

“There are already enough people going to war with your body. You don’t need to join them.” – Laura Day

“If you wouldn’t speak to a child that way, why would you speak to your body that way?” – Alexis Piarulli (referenced)

“Focus on what your body can do—not how it looks.” – Danyelle Carpenter

👩‍🦱 Guest Info

Danyelle Carpenter is a creative, surfer, and thoughtful returning guest on Confessions of a Surf Lady. Known for her wit and emotional depth, she brings warmth and insight to conversations around body image, wellness, and womanhood in the surf world.

Smiling woman with wet hair at the beach, wearing a sleeveless wetsuit top, standing in front of the ocean on a sunny day. — Surf Société Member Danyelle Carpenter after a surf session, reminding us that joy, strength, and confidence are what make a body beach-ready.

📜 Transcript discussing Women's Surfing Body Image

⬇️ Below is the full episode transcript, lightly cleaned for readability.

**Danyelle Carpenter:**

The cost. Wait, what we have to save the content for when we're being recorded. That's right, everything we say is, is just like gold. We

**Laura Day:**

we I know we should recorded our whole trip together. That's where I went wrong with this. I thought about it. I was like, I'm gonna document. Yes, I brought it. I was like, this is going to be great. We're going to, like, get some good conversations in. But I was just too in the moment with you. Yeah,

**Danyelle Carpenter:**

and we also just wanted to low key nap when we weren't surfing. That's

**Laura Day:**

right, yeah, we did do that. That was an important, that was an important part of the trip. 100% we had, we had, we had so I went to visit Danielle. What? Two weeks, two weekends ago, Danielle in Santa Cruz, I'm in San Diego. Yeah, it's been a minute. Not hasn't been that long, but so I went to visit her. This is context for people that are actually listening now, because I think I now realize that there's people actually listening to us. Oh, it's not just, it's not just, it's not just us.

People are listening. I'm gonna sound a lot less smart. Are you?

**Laura Day:**

I doubt that. I highly doubt that. So I go to visit Danielle. We did surf in the morning, nap time, lunch. Oh, no, we had our little like, hang out on the balcony or on the deck. That was nice, like, and then nap time, and then, like, dinner time, old lady go to bed at 8pm Oh, yes. Was good. Yeah, perfect. It was perfect. Um, but the the thing is, we came across a couple conversations that were really important, and I was, like, intending to record them on the spot. However, it was just so organic. I couldn't be like, Whoa, wait. Stop both. Yeah, stop the stop the intelligent things. Pull the mic out right now. So now means Danielle, which you guys have heard her voice before? She's been on it. Have you been on two episodes? Yeah, I have been on two episodes. This is your third. Are you the are you the guest with the most repeats right now? Hold on,

**Danyelle Carpenter:**

oh, or Manny,

**Laura Day:**

no, oh, you're right.

**Danyelle Carpenter:**

He might at least in two,

**Laura Day:**

yeah, but you've definitely been in two already. This would be your third. This is my third. So you might be, you might be winning

**Danyelle Carpenter:**

Manny, yeah, no, Farrah has only been

**Laura Day:**

in 2200 you outdid Farah and Angie's been in two. Do you guys catch the drift? Like, if you're my really good friend, you end up on the podcast, you have to be able to tell some really good stories, though, and have a good time. So that's why we're here today.

Some of your friends are out there going like, What the hell, Laura, I've been on once

**Laura Day:**

or not for

Okay, so let's get to our topic here. Danielle, let's let's get serious, serious stuff. I love this thing that we connected over, and we were able to, just like, dive into over our breakfast, bagels, pre surf. And I told you this thing about how I, you know, we're approaching summer, and so there's this whole idea of like, I gotta lock in. I gotta get that summer body going, right? I gotta, like, get to the gym. I gotta do the stuff, do the diet, la, la, la. And the thing that I had told you was I have this rule that I've put developed in my life, probably over the past year, through a series of like, how I wanted to interact with my body, how I wanted to, like, have a relationship with my body. And my rule is, never go to war with your body.

**Danyelle Carpenter:**

And I love that it just tangentially related to mine, which is what you look shouldn't be the most interesting thing about you. And I mean, that is, like, the things about your appearance you can't control, because obviously, like, there's a lot of choices that we make and how we look, in terms of, like, clothes, hair and those, like, those could be interesting. But I'm just saying, like, you know, I want, I want people to think about other stuff before they they think about how I look, but I like the don't go to war, because I feel like that's, I mean, that's something that we, you know, as women, specifically, if we're going to talk about our experiences as women, um, you know, I feel like there's plenty of people already going to war on our body, um, on like, multiple levels in terms of, like, selling us stuff to, you know, make you, you know, making you feel bad about the way you look, so that they can sell you stuff. Um, literally legislating against like you are. Own health. So, like, there's plenty of places where, like, your body is already sort of being attacked and being, you know, offered up to criticism and, you know, voyeurship, almost like in, yeah, in the world that I don't, you know, we don't, we don't, we personally don't need to join in. And that was just, yeah, that was like a that's so good.

**Laura Day:**

I so I'm so glad you like it, yeah. So that's something that every time I have this thought, I would have this thought about like, Oh, I like, Look Fat today, and have, like, a negative feeling about it, I would be like, No, Laura, you never go to war with your body. That's your number rule one. Number one rule, never go to war with your body. And there are a couple things that like, I mean, starting with what you said, I did think about like, exactly like, once you turn like, what 1011, you start getting into like, kind of pre puberty age for some reason now, at least, like, in a lot of cultures, and you know, especially like in Filipino culture too, your body starts being commented on as, like, from a young age, is in this weird, right? Like, isn't that weird?

**Danyelle Carpenter:**

Weird? Like, it's like, nor like, I feel like we normalize it in a way. But then, like, when you kind of step back, you're like, um, I'm sorry, what? Like, shut up. Yeah. Like, you know, it's, you know, there's this constant tension in my mind of, like, I want to be pretty. I want to be seen as pretty, um and like, but on the other side, I'm like, I don't owe you that I can look like a hag off like, Why? Why do I owe society my beauty when I think my contributions in terms of you know who I am as a person, as a friend, as a, you know, Sister in law, as a wife as a you know, daughter are much bigger, much more important, much more substantial than like, well, she really fit into that bikini this summer. So, you know, good job, like, oh, well, like, it's fine, I don't know. Yeah, it's yeah, like, it is a weird, weird thing, the way that we feel comfortable, and even you know, when you think about like, celebrity culture, to an extent of our willingness to comment on the way women look, and and, and sort of like, and it's interesting, the way that we've shifted it, you know, for a while we were honestly like, you know, when we were probably young, young women, They were legit honest about it, of like, you know, just like, basically tearing these women down. And now we've sort of shifted into this, like, well, we're just really concerned about her health. Like, what? She just doesn't look she just doesn't look as good as she used to. We're so concerned about how healthy she is. And it's like, you her doctor. Like, it's fine, like she probably knows better than you, yeah, what her health is doing. And you really can't tell from how a person looks if they're healthy or not. Like, it's it's such a it's such a weird like thing to be like, Yeah, I can tell by how someone looks, whether right and like, No, you can't. You don't have their like. They're like, stats, right? Medical

**Laura Day:**

history, medical history.

**Danyelle Carpenter:**

They're like, yeah. You know, every time I see a person, I just get an automatic printout in my brain of like, cholesterol, resting heart rate, right? I mean, and it was

**Laura Day:**

what it goes back to. So I always think about this too. So like, Yeah, from when you're at a young age, you're already being like, judged and commented on, on your body. And as a woman, I think this is the thing that trips me up so much. And there's like, tons of layers to this, and one of them is, like, the reason why I realize this is because I'd been, like, really stressful, relationship dynamic, right? And carrying a lot of emotional burden, and a lot of that really comes down on your endocrine system. And then also, like, for me, like, also aging, things just start to change. And when you, when you fuck up your endocrine system. You can't be in total control of just losing weight when you feel like you want to lose weight. And I noticed that for me, it was like, how am I not like, I can't just go to the gym anymore and start losing weight and feeling better. That's not happening. And then you have this feedback of like, oh, well, you're not trying hard enough. You're not being dedicated. Enough. You're probably eating too much. You're not eating the right foods. You're not doing this, this, this and this and all and this stuff, and you feel like your failure

**Danyelle Carpenter:**

and yeah, and then it has to be your fault. You has to be and it's literally is created as like, set up as a moral failing, like you don't have the right work ethic, you are eating bad food, as though, like, food has, like a, you know, right?

**Laura Day:**

I mean, in it. And then even in that sense, the our food system is so fucked up that the chemicals and the pesticides, yeah, that are part of our food systems process, anything, any part of that is also affecting your endocrine system, as is the products in your households, as is all this other stuff that doesn't even affect men the same way that it affects us, because our our cycles and our systems are so sensitive. I mean, when even bring it down, tampons, toilet paper, all of that stuff, yeah, it's just so messed up. And then so you get placed with this burden of, like, you can't have this body ideally, that you're supposed to have. You're doing everything you think you're supposed to do, and and that the world around you is toxin and poisoning you, and you have no idea. And in that's the sense that I get, like, then you're in this war with your body. Of like, I hate my body. I don't like it. I want to, I want to be this for summer or whatever, and

**Danyelle Carpenter:**

when, literally, people are profiting off of that. Yes, yes, off of, off of like, every everything you identified, someone is profiting off of it. And like, it's like, they create, they create this scenario in which you are overworked so you don't have the time to make, you know, cook your dinner, you don't have the time to go to the gym consistently. Like, when I think about, like, the women in my life who work full time have a family, have kids, the idea that they, you know, could also do all of these other things that they're saying. Because essentially, like, you know, when you factor in, like factory farming and everything like that, now you're looking at it's like, well, grow your own food, then, okay, where is the time for also I do love like, I don't know if it's like a meme or whatever, but it's like, honestly, the concept of a Beachbody being just like, thin and muscular is very uninventive. I mean, when we have claws and gills and shit, like, if I you know, like, I'm just saying, like, things that are at the beach, they don't look like what we're describing.

**Laura Day:**

I agree. That's hilarious. I think there's, there's a couple of moments like in the podcast that I've had talking to like some of the other girls, too. And I brought this up with you when we're talking and it kind of really rounds out this whole idea of, like, being at war, at war with your body. Like, yeah, like you said, there's everybody's at war with your body from the very beginning. So you so don't join in on that war. Yeah, don't join in on that. And it took me a while. It took me a long time to get there,

**Danyelle Carpenter:**

and I really get constant tension, like, it's like, it is, it is literally waking up every day and having to choose, like, yeah, you know. And, and I think this is something that I like realize maybe, like in college, is like, I would have days that I would wake up and I'd be like, ew, gross. And like, I recognize also, like, I inhabit a thin body, like I am, I am hitting some of these markers of, like, what people are expecting, but I am still waking up some days and being like, like, not feeling that next day feel fine. And so it was like, that's a lie, that that's a feeling that's just a thing that goes and is not true, because your body can't really change like, one day to another like that drastically. I mean, it can't like, there's obviously, like, some changes. But like, for me to go from like, it to like, no, not. That is like, that's my perception of myself, yeah, and, and that's like, you know that thing of like, you're talking about not going to war, and it is, like, this daily choice that you have to go and, like, be like, no, no, that's fine.

**Laura Day:**

Well, I got to this point so like, and I'm Filipino, right? So you get, like, you show up to a family party, and especially they don't do it as much anymore. I think people are learning that this is probably not okay, but everybody's body is a topic. When you're a young woman, a young girl, you're like, developing you lose weight, you gain weight. Everybody got something to say, like, oh, you really, you really got fat, didn't you? Oh, you lost too much weight. Yeah, it's out. There, yeah, Daniel got her hands on her face. Yes, your teeth will just say this shit. And if my cousin's another room and can hear me, she's probably knows what I

**Danyelle Carpenter:**

mean. So I'm just imagining this happening in my family. And like, ass beating my mom would have given any person who did this. Like, I definitely attribute like, a lot of like, my good concepts of self and bodily autonomy to my mother from very young age, being like, she doesn't want to be picked up, don't touch her like and setting the boundary for me as a child that I was setting and enforcing it with my family. So like, if a member of my family had done that shit, she would have been like, I

**Laura Day:**

will kill you we need to invite her to a party then,

yeah, she's, oh, my God, I'm crazy. You know,

**Laura Day:**

this is like a topic that always would come up because it's just this thing. And I even talked to Elaine abinal about it, who's Filipino, and it's sometimes Filipino culture, you just have these things you say. And she was telling me that she got caught in this loop of having, she saw a friend, and she just had this thing she said, where she had came back and been like, I'm sorry I said that. That's like, so automatic for me. And so this commenting on bodies is very automatic. And so you feel like, really shameful when you do gain a little bit of weight and this, you're like, oh my god, I lose it. I'm gonna lose it. And I've kind of gotten to this place with this through some of these conversations. And one of the conversations has been with Kim American, who runs the account move fat girl, and she talked about body neutrality, so it's not body positivity. So she's like, this idea that, like, I'm not gonna look in the mirror and be like, you're hot, you know, and just like, be positive. She's like, I don't believe that. That doesn't make sense. And she's like, but if you can accept body neutrality, where you're like, a body is just a body, and it's just here to to help you, you know, like to go through life, and that's all it is, and that's something that I really held on to. And then with Alexis pierru Lee in another episode where we talked about healing after I tore my MCL, she was like, if you need to, would you talk to your body the way you talk to it? Child? Would you? Would you talk down to it? If you would you talk to a child that way. And she's like, because if you talk to a child that way, like, if you wouldn't talk to a child that way, why would your body heal if you're like, you're not doing a good job. You're you're doing like, you're being really, really, like, strict on it. She's like, why would your body heal if you if you're talking to it in such a negative way. And so all of these kind of concepts together, like, really brought me to the like, don't never go to war with your body thing. And I bring it back. I'm circling it back because, like, let's just for for, you know, in the last month, I had been house sitting, and so I was out of my routine, totally out of my routine, which means I'm not going to the gym, not really, like, sleeping at the right time, not really eating the stuff I normally eat when I'm here at home. And so I've probably gained like, five pounds or something. I don't know, I'm like, a little extra squishy right now. Like,

**Danyelle Carpenter:**

maybe it's weight, but maybe it's also just like, you are out of your routine. You feel uncomfortable. Like, yeah,

**Laura Day:**

yeah. And so I've gone to this place now where I'm like, Yeah, I don't know. I probably, like, gain a couple pounds. My pants are, like, a little tighter, and I'm just like, I think I got a little fat. But then I I say it to myself in this way that's like, kind of cute. I'm like, No, I think I'm a little fat, right? Yeah, exactly, in a way that's not just like, ew, I'm fat next month.

**Danyelle Carpenter:**

Well, I think we, we sort of talked about, you know, when, when we were having our bagels, we were talking the way that, like, I you, you're like, oh, that's kind of cute. It's like, yeah, like, I like, I see some of these traits on other people's bodies, and that's cute on myself. I'm like, like, I like, sometimes I have this very negative reaction, as though I'm trying to, like, is this weird? Like, goal achievement? Like, this thing that I'm always feeling like I'm striving for sometimes. And you know, it's like again in my like, my my worst impulses, moments where I'm just like, and then, you know, kind of coming back of like, okay, so what's, what is, what do, what? What can you actually do about it? And does it really actually matter like, because we're talking like when you talk about like, body neutrality and like, when I feel at my best, am I honestly like my body feels at its best when I start to focus on. What it does, yeah, kind of how it looks, yeah, and, and what it does is pretty freaking cool. Like, I go to orange theory twice a week, and I surf couple times a week, and I can do yoga. And I, you know, I was in and we're old ladies, and we're old ladies, yeah, I was like, I'm almost 40. Like, you know, like,

**Laura Day:**

we're almost old.

We do a lot of stuff. We do stuff guys. Anyway, I'm listing it out. But, like, No, I mean,

**Laura Day:**

it's a lot, it's a we're able to participate in a lot of the things that we love, yes and

**Danyelle Carpenter:**

like it. And the thing is, is that, generally speaking, when I ask it to do something, it can like it, can do it. And if I were to actually follow my my most negative impulses and try to become this weird ideal that's always moving around, by the way, like our concept of ideal being is not fixed. I don't think my body would actually be able to do what I ask it to do. I would probably be hungry along the time. I would probably be more of a bitch because I was grouchy. I wouldn't have the time to make the art that I want to make, because I would be, like, working out, you know, at a calorie deficit. And I would probably be putting my body into, you know, harm, like, potentially, you know, gambling with the last years of my life and changing how how mobile and how much my body can actually do at, you know, as I get older, you know, setting myself up. My doctor, when I was in college, told me that I was the poster child for osteoporosis. The only thing missing was blue eyes. And I was like, oh, cool, neat. So no,

**Laura Day:**

you ended up. You ended up with those beautiful, speckly green, gold I'm always, like, mesmerized by, like, I don't know what she's saying, but her eyes are beautiful. That's

why Laura always thinks that our conversations are so gray is I've actually put her into a trance instead of actually saying anything

**Laura Day:**

interesting. I mean, we're literally gonna have to put, like, a screenshot of your eyes. People can see what I mean.

**Danyelle Carpenter:**

But, you know, it's like we, we know I'm putting myself into that position. Then now I'm looking at, you know, fractures down the road. So it's like this, this, like, you know, gambling with my future for this unattainable present. And I would much rather, you know, and I love, you know, these activists that are working in this space, that are doing the work, because, you know, they have been actually shunted to decide in society, whereas, like, I have a very privileged position because of the body I inhabit, and they're actually gonna be like, You know what? Actually, you don't actually owe anything in terms of your good looks to to the world. You can just have a body and it can just do what you need it to do, and you don't need to worry about it looking good. And that's that's fine, like, don't, don't worry about it. And then at the end,

**Laura Day:**

in the end of the day, that, like, there's all these things on outside pressures and stuff on how we're so I think we've derived our relationship with our bodies based on everything we've been told and experienced. And so you have this space where you, I think for me, it was recreating that relationship and being like, being like, I never, there are these things in your life where you never created the relationship. You inherited the relationship, right? So, yeah, ouch, thinking, what in your life, what in life have has been an inherited relationship to you, and so that that is a big one for women, absolutely, you know, and so to be able to, and it's not, I wouldn't say it's easy work at all by any means. Like, I've worked on it a lot I've done, like, the thing that's helped for me with is, like, Neo emotional release therapy. So you talk about this stuff, and you kind of understand in your body where you feel it and you're meant to release this, but recreating that relationship is something that's meaningful for you, and personally for me. And I think a lot of women that surf, it's going to be like, I just, I just want to, I just want to surf a lot, yeah. And the thing is, like, Yes, I do want to, I do want to, like, wear a cute suit. I do want to look cute sometimes, and stuff like, and get pictures and do all of that. But that doesn't have to look a certain way. And when, yeah, when you create this, at least, like, how I feel, and like, once I started. Creating a more positive relationship with how I spoke to my body. When I was like, No, I don't go to work. That's just something I don't do. No, I don't do that. I don't go to work with my body. Yeah. So once I started creating that relationship, I felt like my body was actually responding more positively. I feel like I wake up. I mean, there's certain things that I do that. Like, I personally stick to which I really try to get in. I don't calorie I don't restrict anything. I try to eat at 100 grams of protein. So I'm trying to eat, like, and whatever else falls around. That is fine, but I'm trying to get enough nutrients. Like, yeah, that's kind of the goal, right? And, and I do go to surf, go to yoga and, and I used to be like, I'm gonna go to the gym, like, three times a week, and I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna do this, I'm going to do that, I'm going to do that. And then I just kind of realized my body just liked it more when I talked well to it, when I ate better, when I did a couple things, like served maybe yoga, but I didn't overdo it. And then that's more when I felt like, at least for me, whatever hormonal things that I was constantly trying to balance just started to sort itself out. And it comes hand in hand, but a lot of it, I think, was just like, I'm done going even like, not even in going to work with your body doesn't have to be like, I hate my body. It could also be like, running three miles every day after you've surfed and gone to yoga, yeah, yeah, forcing yourself to be like, I better go work out. I better do this. I better go do that. I gotta like, I and I'm all about like, I am not anti goals. Like, I'm not saying don't have goals for your body, but don't be so strict about the fact that you need to achieve this thing that you don't even listen to what your body needs. Your it's

**Danyelle Carpenter:**

the rigidity. And I think, like, you know, I've, I've actually been talking with my surf friends sometimes about, like, I'm in this season. Like, a few months ago, I was telling them, like, look, go charge. That's fine. That's not the season I'm in. I need some baby waves right now. And so, like, sometimes you're going to be in the season of, like, I just need to go to yoga. I'm not going to charge to the gym, but maybe it is only a season. And maybe, like, in a few months, you're like, oh yeah. Like, and your body is ready and hungry for that, instead of it being forced into that. And it's like this difference of like, and it is like, there is a tension in this of like, having, like, listening to your body. Is it just like, Oh man, I don't want to work hard right now? Or is it actually, like, your body asking for rest? Yeah, and like, and, and I think, like, through our society, we have sort of been taught to ignore a lot of like our internal signals, like we like to like be like, You need to drink this money, you know, glasses of water a day you just drink when you're thirsty, with an internal mechanism for these and so we've sort of like turns, like, we have sort of turned some of them off, and it is like trying to, like, clear out some of the noise, which is so hard, like, 100% so hard to do, and starting to think, like, listen to it and say, like, what, what? What is that feeling that I'm feeling? Is it really like needing rest, or is it just, like, don't really feel like it right now and then also, like, this is a really hard one for me. Like, if I were going to go to class, go to like, a go to the gym, to work out, and I started working out, and I just wasn't feeling it, it would be really hard for me to leave. But you should be you should give yourself that freedom. Yeah, and I've given myself that freedom now. Sometimes, when I start, like, more often when I surf now, and it's really great, I paddle out. I'm like, I don't feel this. I take a wave and I go in. Like, usually I'm like, you gotta stay out for an hour. I'm like, Why? Why this arbitrary time? And it is just like this, like, you know, and if you can, if you know that you can do that, if you know that you can be like, this isn't serving me right now, I'm gonna leave if you know you can do that, and give yourself the power to do that. That means that you can, like, sort of explore that question a little bit more of like, do I really just not want to go or, or am I, is my body actually asking for rest? So, and having the body is really hard. I'm

**Laura Day:**

going to pause this one second because I'm going to tell my cousin she can COVID, steal that and,

**Danyelle Carpenter:**

and that's the secret to life.

**Laura Day:**

And with that,

oh, wait, you didn't record

**Laura Day:**

that. Sorry. We just took like, a two second break because my cousin's staying over, and I didn't realize. I didn't tell her she could walk without getting in the frame in the background. So she's just been like, hiding in my room. So that's my. Okay, yeah. Um, okay. So I have a question. Tell me, okay, yeah, and you have the answer. Well, so okay, it's like, obviously, like, it's, it's March, end of March. So we got April, May, June, like, we're right up on the heels of summer here. Yeah, what kind of feelings do you think most women, especially women that surf, we spend a lot of time at the beach. What kind of feelings do you think most women are, like, dealing with and like, let's dive into how we could, like, boost everyone up. Yeah.

**Danyelle Carpenter:**

I mean, I guess it depends. I mean, it really does, like, kind of depend on where you're at in your journey with your body right? Like we've we've been discussing sort of where we're at. So for me, I actually don't have a lot of feelings right now, but I have heard people express like this anxiety or this pressure, or this like stress about like and, and you see it like, you know, at gyms and at other places they work out where they're like, Okay, you know, it's time to get that beach body ready. And it's like, the big the beach will get whatever fucking body I bring it, okay? Like, you know, like the beach actually does not care. The beach isn't inanimate. Well, it's not inanimate. The beach is alive, but the beach does not care. The beach is more upset that you're trashing it. So yeah, and yeah. Like, I think, speaking of, like, you know, the beach and being giving the beach your body, like, you know, it's that thing of like, Oh, my clothes don't fit, so I need to change my body for my clothes, which is like a bananas concept, the clothes were made for you. Clothes are made for people. And, like, literally, up until probably, like, a few generations ago, they weren't made for you, like a, you would say, tailor, and they need it for you, or you made your own clothes. Like my grandma tells me stories about, like she her mom would take all the kids to the department store, and they would, like, try on clothes, and she would measure them, and then she would go home, and she would, they wouldn't buy any of the clothes, and she would sew them all clothes. And, like, we sort of moved away to that off the rack thing. And so, yeah, man, you don't feel good in your clothes. They weren't made for you. They were made for the average. And, you know, I think I've sort of deviated from our beach body conversation, but I think that is, like, connected, right? Of like, you know you you you talk about trying to fit your body into the mold of either the clothes that you want to wear, clothes that you own, or the beach concept that you're going to when that's not how it should be. They should be shaped to your body like you're you're when you go to the beach, like, again, the beach does not care. But like, I Why wouldn't you be more focused on like? I'd like to be able to run on the beach and not lose my breath. I would like to be able to go into the water and feel like a strong swimmer. I would like to paddle out and surf for an hour with my friends and have energy at the end those things. I think if we can stop, if we are able to stop focusing on the visual of our body, and start focusing on what it does, like we were talking about that's, it's going to be a nicer summer. Yeah, instead of just like, thinking all the time, stressing all the time about, like, am I going to be good enough? Um, and

**Laura Day:**

because you're not going to be good, you're not, that's the whole system exactly. You're not like, I'm like, I'm sorry if you came here to hear that. You're not going to be getting like, for as society standards, you're not going to be good enough. This whole system was set up to not be good enough. Yeah,

**Danyelle Carpenter:**

you're not going to be good enough. There's never going to be a point until you choose it. You have to choose the point where you're like, Nope, I'm good enough.

**Laura Day:**

I mean, it's just like a it's like a toxic relationship. You're in this toxic your your relationship with this idea that that you need to keep striving for this thing, right? Because if you keep striving for this thing, that we can sell you more products and we can intimidate you, we can keep we can have more power over you, whether that be what companies or media, whatever it is. Yeah, if

**Danyelle Carpenter:**

I keep you focused on you not looking good enough, you're gonna keep buying these products, and you're gonna not notice when I pollute your river, you're drinking water when I take away your you know, bodily autonomy when I you. You know, when I destroy the structures around you that keep you safe, because all you're thinking about, you're you're all a huge chunk of your energy is going into carrot and looking, yeah, cute. It's

**Laura Day:**

a dangling carrot, yeah? And it's just a toxic cycle. And it's when, like, you pull yourself out of that, and you're like, I'm done listening to that. Like, I mean, if you were in a relationship, you would go no contact, which, I don't know that that's completely I mean, it's not possible. I think you just have to put barriers up. Or, like, that's why, for me, the number one rule is, like, I don't, I don't do that. Like, I don't, I don't go to work with my you guys can try to go with word with it, but I don't do it. So like, good luck, good luck. Good luck. Trying to convince her, because she ain't

being convinced. Good

**Laura Day:**

luck. Um, so it's it. It is like a toxic framework. And I think when you recognize that and be like, You know what, I'm going to take myself out of that toxic cycle and then create this own relationship with what I want for my summer body, yeah, I want to be able to, like, surf, you know, whatever. How many times if I, if I go on a surf trip, I want to surf three times a day. I want to be able to do that, right? Yeah,

**Danyelle Carpenter:**

that's an excellent beach body. I have to tell you, there you go. Because your body's like, Yes, I am down for another session which, like, at this point, like you, we did three days in a row, and I was, like, cooked so well during three

**Laura Day:**

days in a row, row in Santa Cruz in March, is that we're wearing, like, every year, every year is being put on. And so, like, part of the workout I did. I was like, Why does my neck hurt? I think I slept weird. And then Shay was like, No, it was because you had the wed suit on. I was like, fucker Yeah.

**Danyelle Carpenter:**

Like, this

**Laura Day:**

is what you choose. And I'm like, yeah, it's great. I know, I put on a five, four, I put the hood on, I put the hood on one day, and I lost my favorite earring. I was like, oh, okay, that is my little that's my little gift to the ocean.

**Danyelle Carpenter:**

Yes, we make a our offerings to the ocean. In this case, your gold earring. Yes.

**Laura Day:**

I mean, it wasn't real gold, but it was the color gold. So well, you know, there's a little fish, fish, fish. Yeah?

**Danyelle Carpenter:**

Ariel herself, yes, look at this gadget. Cynthia Rosen, what's this? I have no idea what this does.

**Laura Day:**

Oh, that's so good. Okay, wait back to our advice. Okay, so for those looking to get that summer beach body in surfing, one thing that really concerns me, and I don't know I did talk to Kim American about this, was I and she, I feel like, is a lot more in tune with kind of how things move within this, like space of representation of women and marketing and stuff, because she really pays attention to that stuff. And one of the things that like, I was like, Yeah, I felt like, in, you know, 2020 we're like, really moving through this, like inclusivity situation, this body diversity and celebration, and now it feels like we're kind of reverting back and right? And she was mentioning that it's like, the trend of the g1 LPs, right, of the, like, weight loss drugs, yeah. And she's like, Yeah, it's this, it's become this access to this medication that allows people to lose weight so drastically, and, you know, and also, she was like, I, you know, whatever you want to do with your body. And, like, nobody's judge. I'm not judging it, but I have noticed, and I will, I will say this, and you and I have talked about this. We don't have to mention the brand, but I have mentioned it on Instagram without mentioning the brand. There's a brand out there, and there's probably a few, but there's, there's one in particular that is, like really meant to be about women in the water. And, you know, I think they play this role of being diversity and inclusive and everything like that. But it just so happens that every time they reshare, they reshare a story on Instagram of somebody that's wearing their clothes, that person always just so happens to be like a woman with like a flat stomach, and a woman that's like, generally thin. And the reason why I know this is because I share the Well, first of all, they follow the podcast if you're listening. Hi

bring bridges right now. So they actually, they actually do follow the podcast on Instagram, and they don't follow a ton of accounts. So I figure, like, Okay, this is on their radar, but I sometimes wear their products and I will tag them. And they will never share anything that I tag, and I imagine that they have lot of customers that are buying into this idea of diversity and inclusion and La, la, la, la, and are wearing their products and looking good in them, but they don't and are not fitting this flat stomach. Yeah, thing that and so they never get re shared, which I think is really detriment to their brand. It

**Danyelle Carpenter:**

seems counter to brand ideology. And like, you know, I think we talked a little bit about like, who could say? Like, could be a disconnect between, like, you did two parts, but like at a certain point that excuse breaks down. Like at a certain point it's just like, is this, is this lip service to this? You can give yourself a pat on the back, and we can feel good about this product. Or is, are you putting your money where your mouth is, which is, like, are you uplifting women who don't fit a very narrow band of I mean, and let's be real, like, white femininity and like and Like this is definitely intertwined with, like, a concept of white supremacy. And, like, you know, I think we sort of talked about that sort of, that weaving too. And like, yeah, these ideas are not my own. I'm standing on the shoulder of other women who are doing this work. And, but, but that, but that is like this, if you don't like fit it, then you're not getting the same attention or being kind of let into the girls club. And that sucks, because, like, we've been talking about, there's plenty of people already keeping us out of their club. We should all, like, get a bigger clubhouse. Like, like, I don't think that this is like a time for us to be excluding people. It's really

**Laura Day:**

interesting because you just described like, a very I would call it, this is, like, low key, insidious. I mean, I call it insidious because of my like, my like, relationship history, and the way I start understanding patterns of how people operate, right? So there's this systemic idea, and we're being fooled into thinking that this is for all of us, that we should all partake and even in like, marketing of other stuff, like, people are marketing two of your pain points, that's fine. That's how marketing works. But like, really digging into like, you need to look a certain way and be a certain way. So you're bought into this thing, but in this particular brand, or some other brands that do too. You're bought into this culture of we are all here. We all accept you, but then you're re fed back this loop that you're actually not good enough. So you should actually, you should actually keep aspiring to be like these same girls that look super good. And so you should actually keep trying to buy our products and like that is such a like, it's insane. That's when I think it's because it's so layered and deep that who is going to be able to sit there and decode that? And I'm not gonna lie like you and I talked about it, we're like, well, we'll probably still buy suits from

**Danyelle Carpenter:**

them. It's still cute, but I think we've also like, we're not telling us the narrative ourselves, the narrative that, like, I'm buying them because they're such a wonderful brand, because it's like, just trying to take my money and like, that's, don't lie to me about it, like, I know you are. Like, that's sort of the the game we're playing here in capitalism town. Um, so, like, Yes, I, I will still probably buy from them, because what's the option? Like, yeah,

**Laura Day:**

right. Um, right.

**Danyelle Carpenter:**

Going to a brand that, like, literally has, like, a girl with her ass out, like, you know, in a phone and, like, in the surfing magazine, she's not surfing. She's just at beach. She's Beach, like, you know, like that. Sort of the trade off is either like, you are getting a brand that is, like, embracing the misogyny, or you're going with a brand that is, you know, using the language of inclusivity to sort of feed you back, like you were saying the the same sort of misogynistic images of women. And, you know, we could have a, we could definitely have an intelligent. Debate on which is worse and like, and I think, like, you know, people could disagree and still be correct. Like, so, yeah, I, I don't know what it i There's

**Laura Day:**

no answers here. I agree. Yeah, I agree. Um, and I mean, at the end of the day, when you are searching for a suit that you do feel good in and that fits you well. It is that's already a struggle in itself. So it's like, I don't, I'm I don't like shame anyone from buying any stuff if you think you know what brand I'm talking about. But I do appreciate being able to call it out with somebody, because I've never really noticed it. I'm like, is it this is just me, yeah. And then I posted about it, and a couple people were like, are you talking about this friend? I was like, immediately, yeah. And then I was like, How Why would you say that? They're like, because I've tagged notice that yeah, they're like, I've tagged them too, and they never share anything, yeah. And I think that's just like, in a space where like that reciprocity, if someone's proud to share your what you created? Why in, in a place like Instagram stories that is incredibly informal? Why not? Um, and it's really tough because, you know, I had a I have surf where line, but I I still have product, but I stopped creating new collections. Stopped creating new like styles and stuff, because it's really difficult, on many fronts to create something in in that kind of industry, that space and like not only is clothing manufacturing really difficult, very intensive and expensive, but entering the surf market place in the surf industry as a woman and a woman of color, even though we can this is another topic. We could get into the debate whether women and women of color have the same or different experiences. Because I have friends who have been like, well, I'm white passing, and it's really just because you're a woman. I'm like, Okay, well, you're not a woman of color, so you would not know or you're passing for not a woman of color. So would you know? Like, but anyways, that's a different topic. But like, I have had absolute experiences with creating a so far line that that did not want me to be there, yeah, absolutely did not want me to be there, showed clear signs of disrespect of me being there. So to be somebody that's like, I want to do this. Like, I want to change this. I want to create this representation, go into it. And really, the reason why I don't produce new pieces is because I realized, like, I'm in a space where people don't want me to be here and I don't want to be fighting against somebody constantly. Yeah, because I in that kind of marketplace, even though there is E commerce, like you still do need, like, retailers and other people to support you, to be able to build that up.

**Danyelle Carpenter:**

Yeah, that's how you that's how people find your brand. Sometimes. Is, is

**Laura Day:**

your shop try it on? Yeah? So yeah.

**Danyelle Carpenter:**

And trying things on is, like, so huge. I mean, like, it's, it's hard buying us stuff online, like we're just discussing of like, you sizes are made up. Apparently, the tag doesn't mean anything. So it's like, yeah, like, I would love to be able to try something on before I commit to it, especially depending on the company's return policy, right? Yeah, no, I mean and, and to your point of like, you didn't want to keep having this fight, like, at a certain point, like that is what the goal is, right? Is to get us to give up. Is like, is to make it so difficult. You can't pinpoint exactly what it is. It's this thing of like, and you're saying, like, I think it's because of this, but they're never going to just straight up to your face say, yeah, they're, you know, they're not going to be. They're not going to like, straight up, like, use a racial slur, or call you, like, your name as a woman or something like that. Like, they're not going to do that. They're just going to be like, nah. Like, they're going to make it, like, opaque enough that they could just be like, Oh, well, it didn't really fit our, like, you know, esthetic, our brand, or whatever. And you're always going to feel a little bit crazy when you go, I think maybe, you know, like, I'm going to be such a dork right now, but like, go for it, yes, I don't listen to a lot of Taylor Swift, but the song where she was like, if I was a man, the one line that, like, every time I'm just like, holy shit, she goes wondering if I would get there faster if I was a man. And that sort of it, like, identifies very clearly to me some of like, what we're talking about in terms of, like, you know, privilege and like these different, you know, leverages, like you don't know, and you're gonna keep questioning, would I be farther along? Would it have been easier if I was a man, if I was, you know, in your case, if I was white, like and you're never going to have an answer. And everybody's going to be able to tell you, Oh no, it doesn't make a big it doesn't make a difference at all. And but you're always going to have that. You're always going to wonder that, because you're always going to see other people succeeding, and go, What? What? What's the difference? I can see some things that are different. So

**Laura Day:**

something that I also recognize we, I mean, we could, we could turn this into two. We could just carry this. Are you supposed to serve today?

I got hours tried to come back up a little bit Zoom

**Laura Day:**

is like, um, you're, you're timed out anymore. Please for you. One of the things I recognized was I would hear that there are certain stories that I could tell, and the feedback would be like, Oh no, that's not, that's not why one of the things, yeah, one of the things that incredibly insidious, I was talking to a, I just want to name them. I don't know if I will, but I was talking, yeah, name it and then, like, beep it later, yeah, um. Or I could just, I was talking to this organization, editing in progress. So I there was a communication that I did, a a spring, like Springboard accelerator program with I applied for it. So I pitched the business. I air surf right went through it. Had a couple, yeah, I didn't make it into the program. They said it was too early. 100% it was quite early. And then I had these experiences with these people who were part of the program, some mentors who wanted to get me on track, and that those were, I mean, these are experiences where I was like, would they have talked to me like this, tried to intimidate me like this, if I was a guy, or if I had brought my boyfriend at the time, who is a white guy, would the conversation have gone the same? But after kind of all of this happened, and I've had plenty of other examples to go off of and have this realization where I'm like, I don't want to be striving to to succeed in a space where people don't want me fuck that. And that's why I really pursued more like this podcast space and the digital like the surf society, because I was like, I just want to be with my community. I just want to, like, be good at surfing. I don't give a fuck about these people in their fucking stores and their fucking magazines, like they're constantly not going to give me a fair shot, right? So then I went back, and I had a conversation with one of the women that is kind of like the front runner for this organization that I had gone to per to originally pitch the business, right? And her response when I told her, I was like, I decided not to continue pursuing creating more of my surfboard line. By the way, guys, I am still selling stuff. I don't want to tell you, I would love for you to buy it. It's at shop, dot surf society.com, I'll put the link in the show. So yeah, because it would be great to, like, continue to move that inventory. But um, so I told her, like, I'm shifting my focus. This is what I'm doing. I really realized that the surf industry is a white, male dominated industry that is just going to be an uphill battle for me to try to be successful in. And this is what she said. She said, or maybe you were just ahead of your time. And it was the it is the most. It is the most insidious thing of one of the most insidious things I've ever heard someone say, she created a compliment, a thing that people would be like, Oh, okay, I'm not ahead of my time. No, she used a compliment to mask systemic racism within surfing industry. Yeah, it's like,

**Danyelle Carpenter:**

it's basically like, you know, the Regina George me where she's like, So you agree.

**Laura Day:**

You think I'm really pretty like,

**Danyelle Carpenter:**

surfing is a white, male dominated industry, like, So you agree, like and ahead of the time, God, like that. Mean, no, what it means is surfing is behind the surf industry, I would say is behind the time. Like, you know it's, it is like, to me, sometimes I do really feel like there's, like, this separation between, like, surfing, like thing that I do with my friends, that I think is lovely in and majorly, like the majority of people that I meet are wonderful and inclusive. And, you know, obviously there's assholes, because, hey, that's the world. But, like, the industry itself is pretty rotten, and I think that feeds down into some of these people in the lineup thinking that they have the right to be stuck in the past. And I.

Coconin, what did you say to her? Like, I'm so curious, because I think I would have lost my shit.

**Laura Day:**

I don't remember i I'm trying to remember if I, like, actually realized it in real time, which, yeah, doing, I think. And I think I also was staying polite, because I was continuing to nurture a business connection, a potential business connection, which is really also bad too. I don't know that I do that anymore, but, yeah, I don't think I do that anymore. I'm just like, no, like, if, if I heard that today, and I processed it really quick. I probably would have said something. I probably would say something today, just kind of like what I know now, and my articulate, you know, yeah, I take no shit articulation, so I don't remember, but I remember feeling, thinking about it, feeling about it, taking note of like I could bullet point the instances that I've had that really kept pointing me in this direction, that like this is not okay. I'm putting myself in a toxic situation. And why? Why for why so? But I mean, I think that kind of goes back down to the expectation of what you're supposed to look like as a surfer, the expectation of what you're supposed to look like in the summer in the suit on the board, and what your body is supposed to look like, because these are the people that are making those decisions. Yeah,

**Danyelle Carpenter:**

and like, what a wild thing to say. Like, like, if we just pull back and somebody is deciding what you should look like surfing. So I'm sorry, what fuck off like? Let's be real. I don't even decide what I look like surfing. I'm doing my best here, and like the ocean is making a lot of decisions about what that looks like. But like, the concept that somebody is deciding what, what an image of like, anything, what, what, what the what a person looks like like, we're just going to keep on surfing, what a, what female surfer is supposed to look like, is just kind of gross. You know? It's like, yeah, what do you what do you mean, like, especially when I think about what surfing means to me, which is like this, life saving, Soul filling, wonderful, emotional ability to connect with other people, with myself, with nature, and for somebody to tell me that I or any person, I just want to say any person, if there's going to say that any person isn't the right person to experience that, I hate it. I don't like that. I think that's cruel, and I think it is. It's gross, yeah, like, I don't like it lacking the words to say how much I reject that concept because it is, like, it's it's not something to be sold. You know, if we look past what surfing, surf industry has become, and the image of surfing as, like, you know, white boys on boards like it was this deeply, you know, spiritual connection to nature that indigenous people were having. And, um, you know, we, first, we try to keep stop them from doing it, then we stole it, and then we got the price tag on it. And, um, I, yeah, like, that's, that's messed up, because I as much, you know, tension, or like, much conflict as you can have in a lineup. Sometimes, like it is such a cool experience to have all these people that want to do the same thing as you and are getting that stoke. And you know, the one of my favorite things that I do right now is I get to teach. I volunteer to teach people how to surf. And watching people surf for the first time reminds me how amazing this is, and I hope that they never get told the thing that the industry is telling them, or, you know, is right now saying, which is that, oh, actually, you don't belong on a surfboard. You're never going to see yourself reflected in our marketing, because we do not value you even enough to take your fucking money. Because that's literally what they're saying. Is like, we don't think that you are, are enough in the in this, you know, the surfing. Group, you're valuable enough in a certain group to try and take the money from you, which, like, is a weird goal to have, like, I don't know, but like, yeah. Like, No man, well,

**Laura Day:** :11

that's when the currency is, like, it's interesting, because we have there's an issue when I think there's an issue when the currency is simply money, but that's when the currency is ego and greed. I'd rather hold my ego and my pride and my greed over I'd rather keep that than sell my thing to you. That's, that's like, creepy. I mean, like, I really think, like, the capitalistic thing is all lead, it's all a little bit creepy, but it's right. But then, like, that's creepy, where it's like, Oh, something fills me up to feel like I could bully you out of this. That's,

**Danyelle Carpenter:** :45

yeah, bully you out of the water. I'm sorry. No, you know I

**Laura Day:** :55

we could go on, um, but, yeah, let's, let's take this. Let's take this home. Danielle,

:01

we're gonna take

**Laura Day:** :04

it home. Okay? We we know we were, we've gone past an hour. We're still we're going. But I do want everyone to, because we have this conference with such a such a good conversation together in person. And I was way better than this one. Just literally gonna say, I hope we recreated it correctly.

**Danyelle Carpenter:** :26

No, I was just kidding. I wanted them to feel left out. Okay,

**Laura Day:** :30

yeah, well, you're always gonna feel left out if you're listening. We love you all. We're

:36

not trying to exclude anyone. Literally what this is about.

**Laura Day:** :42

Sorry, you're wrapping up. No. I mean, like, I, I just want people to recognize that if you are in a space right now where you're chasing some beat a beach body, I am not anti goals. I think you go chase those goals. But where, where are those? Girl goals like really originate from like. And what do you have to sacrifice to gain those goals? Is it worth it? And, and can you actually are? Is chasing that actually going to make you happy? Are you going to be in this perpetual loop? And, oh, my God, just talking about this now, I just had a, I mean, this is there was an influencer online that just was talking about, like, oh, people were asking me how I carry myself so confidently. And she started talking about that she gets hair extensions and she does Botox and she does body sculpting and just these things that I was like, wait, what? That's not, yeah, that's that's not confidence, that's money. That's funny putting money into this the you know. But anyways, that's like another side topic. But, yeah, how can people go into this summer body mindset without, like, letting it be a toxic thing, with actually creating a relationship where you tell yourself, I'd never go to war with my I mean, I guess I just want everyone to adopt my philosophy, yeah,

**Danyelle Carpenter:** :07

philosophy. She is the smartest. I mean, I think also just like, if, if the wording of like don't go to war, doesn't like resonate with you, then I would encourage you to focus on what your body can do. Because the thing you know, when I was competing, when I was when I was when I was a swimmer, I got really focused on my time and and when I didn't drop time, it was really hard. Like, it just like, I felt like a failure. Um, and I so then I stopped. I stopped looking at my time after my race, and I started just thinking about how the race was before I put this other evaluation on it. And that really changed the way that I was approaching my swimming. And I think in this case, like, when we're talking about our bodies, like we're talking, you know, you're like, I want this end product, which is a weird thing to describe your body as, but whatever you're you want this end body, but you don't really, actually have that much control about it. If weight loss was easy, there wouldn't be 10 million books about it. Um, so you don't really have that much control over it, just like I don't necessarily have that much control over the time, but I do have control over my start, my, my, my finish, my, my flip turns, all these little parts along the way. And in that sense, like you have control over all these like things that you do to make yourself to have your body function the way you want it, to, to feed it well, to talk to it and kindly to you know what? If your clothes don't fit, you don't feel good on them anymore. But just get get another, get a different pair of jeans. You. Why? Why are you trying to fit back into those pair of jeans? They're not that cute. Anyway, Gen Z says they're out of style. So, you know, so focus on the things that like you can you can actually impact and make you feel good while you're doing them, instead of punishing yourself for not reaching this fictitious ideal. And like, again, like, along the way, you're focusing more about what can my body do, and in that process, like you're maybe you're gonna find a hobby that you like, you know like, you're gonna find a new surf break that you enjoy or like you, I think there's a lot more opportunity for growth in that mindset of, like, what, what can, what do I want my body to do, instead of how it looks, and what's that process look like? And

**Laura Day:** :56

I think you're actually, I would say you're probably going to actually be more surprised with the results when you focus on something that you can positively control, and instead of so drastically focusing on like, I need to lose weight and need to do this, I need to do that, like you are probably going to arrive at a situation where your body responds well to building the muscles that you need to do those things. And you might actually realize like, Oh, wow. I I have the Beachbody that I wanted in the sense that it can do these things, and I feel healthy, and I actually do appreciate what it looks like because it does these things.

**Danyelle Carpenter:** :32

Oh yeah. And I like, I find when I focus on, like, what my body can do instead of how it looks, suddenly I It doesn't matter as much that it doesn't quite look like. It like I like pictured in my head. And if you that's pretty good, good enough, it's fine, whatever. Who cares? I mean, I, you know, obviously like, and that's the thing, is like, I also don't want like people to feel like shamed because they're thinking about the way they look. Because, like, yeah, man, like, I don't think there's any getting away from that. And it's not like that's a bad thing. I think it's just the the all consuming nature of it that I think, like a that's really sort of end all be all the end all be all the that that we're sort of getting pushed and started getting fed is like, every single decision that you make, they're like, well, is that a is that reaching your body goals? And it's like, I don't know. Man, probably not. But sometimes I just, I really like a little treat. That's okay. Have a treat.

**Laura Day:** :45

I don't know. We'll end it on that. Have a treat. Thank you for coming on, Danielle, we can, let's schedule our next show next week or something. We'll

**Danyelle Carpenter:** :58

have another discussion in a month. We won't know the topic. We'll just make one up on make one up, okay, I like that. Oh, I don't know. You seem to manage it. Yeah, that's why

**Laura Day:** :08

us hanging out is just, like, so easy. We just hang out

**Danyelle Carpenter:** :13

scribbling down podcast episode. I should just

**Laura Day:** :16

start, I should just start recording you in secret, like, creepy.

:23

Suddenly, everybody's outside my house with a pitchfork.

**Laura Day:** :26

Yeah, and then it's like the Danielle series, and I'll release it. All your secrets, no, all your thoughts, opinions and secrets will be revealed. Okay, thank you. I'm like, Okay, I need to cut us off.